TurboTaxed: Intuit Don't Want My Business Either.

Location: Home :: Comments :: TurboTaxed.

Intuit, makers of QuickBooks, Quicken, and TurboTax, just want my money.

Up front, I'd like to say that I'm no longer upset, despite my avatar's page mood. I just didn't take it anymore, and I went to TaxActOnline.com and used TaxACT Online to file my 2007 tax returns.

Also up front, I admit to making a mistake. I urge others to regularly do their homework when shopping for programs (download or otherwise), and to keep at least a little up to date on whether something is still a good value or not. My mistake is that I failed to take my own advice. I failed to keep up to date on how Intuit were changing and where their products were going. I was so uninformed that I did not even realize that the boxed TurboTax products once locked users' own data away on their own machines behind DRM. I still don't know whether it still does or not. Because of that mistake, I fell victim to misplaced trust based on only my own outdated experience.

Why do I put "either" in the page title? Here are just a few reasons:

• TurboTax and Intuit Lost My Business - A Fool's Wisdom
• Out of Options With TurboTax - Ed Foster's Gripelog at InfoWorld.
• TurboTax/Quicken/Intuit useless, overpriced, error filled tax filing program. - Rip Off Report
• Product States Efile Is Free For Federal Taxes, But It Isn't Free At All... - Rip Off Report (again).
• TurboTax defense dismissed ... again - Don't Mess With Taxes. (Probably not related, but given the Rip Off Report links above...)
• TurboTax ate my kicker check - Jack Bog's Blog.
• TurboTax Online — Doing Your Taxes With Terrible Customer Service and Internet Delays - Epinions.com.
• TurboTax vs. TaxCut vs. TaxAct: What's the Best Deal? - GetSheila.
• Consumer Complaints about Intuit - TurboTax - Consumer Affairs.
• Use TaxActOnline.com and save your brain cells for more important things, like porn! - Epinions.com.
• TurboTaxed — as in, my patience - Epinions.com. A review of the boxed TY2002 product, which mentions the horrid activation system and other programming nightmares it had.

And for the record, here are the stats for the PC I used when filing my 2007 state and Federal returns in January of 2008.

• A Dell Inspiron 600m with:
• Intel Celery-M 1300 MHz CPU,
• 1024 MB RAM,
• Ubuntu Linux operating system,
• Mozilla Firefox Web browser,
• and the NoScript extension for Firefox.

I had to instruct NoScript to allow scripting on intuit.com and subdomains, as well as on taxactonline.com and subdomains.

Intuit still want to believe that the world runs on Windows, only recently learning that Macs are catching on, and only this year learning that Firefox and Safari are together whittling away Microsoft's IE monopoly. Their TurboTax Online product insisted that I was using an unsupported browser, even though the exact same browser is now officially supported on Windows and MacOS. Officially supported or not, TurboTax Online has worked with the Mozilla Suite and with Firefox since I started filing my own taxes online, and to their credit, this year's product was no different in that respect.

I had been filing my state and Federal tax returns with TurboTax Online since '01 or '02, so this would've been the end of the sixth year. (My first journal entry about TurboTax Online is here, just three months after I started my Web journal.) My, how the mighty have fallen. I didn't even think of trying anything else, so when my tax documents came in, it was off to TaxFreedom.com to see if I still qualified for reduced rate filing.

My troubles started as soon as I loaded up their Tax Freedom Project home page. I was instantly redirected to a page within the TurboTax site, but both the URL and page content reassured me that I was in the right place. The page proudly asked, "Do you qualify to file your federal & state taxes for free?" It gave me two glossy buttons to click on: right beside it, "Find Out!", and in a box below it, "I qualify! Start Now." It didn't matter which I chose, but I clicked on the find-out button.

My income qualified me to file my Federal return for free, but they said that I would have to pay $9.95 to file my state return. That's all right. They told me up front and gave me an opportunity to decide before diving in. I dove in, not just because of the price, but because I trusted their Web application to work as well this year as last. (Remember the mistake I admitted to making up front?)

I was immediately presented with an unusual but not unfamiliar interface. The application was now AJAX-powered and included an Apple-like slide-out "TurboTax Live Community" panel. I thought this was a rather good feature to roll out. I had no idea, and I was given no indication at all, that something was wrong.

I proceeded to fill in my Federal return information, and it was slow, unlike past years. The overloaded JavaScript taxed my CPU and graphics both. TurboTax Online offered to import my information from last year's return, and I agreed to let it. That sped the process up, but only by taking some typing out. The process was a slow progression of single decisions with clear answers. I read everything and understood as much as I could before making any decision.

When I got to the state return information, I received the first indication that something had gone horribly wrong. TurboTax Online offered to file my state return for only $29.95. That's not the $9.95 I was promised before logging in. Naturally, since it was there, I turned to this Live Community applet to see what gave.

Their Live Community forum for this step was peppered with users just as sticker-shocked as I was. Every last one of them were dismissed by respondents as having posted from Basic, Deluxe, or Premier editions, not the Freedom Edition to which I logged in. They were dismissed with additional statements that Live Community wasn't available in Freedom Edition. As an aid to give users precise help, the Live Community shows which edition users asking questions are using.

I had no reasonable way to know this. This feature is mentioned on the Compare TurboTax Online Software Products page, but this specific page is accessible only from the TurboTax.com home page, not from the Tax Freedom home page. This is mentioned nowhere else, that I was able to find. That's a bit like posting news of an Albuquerque water rate hike only in Pie Town. In fact, I didn't find this product comparison until writing this article three days after this problem.

But since none of the users presented the exact path I took to arrive at this state of shock, I decided I would:

ArielMT Asked:

On home page:
Get started with TurboTax Freedom Edition
* Free Preparation, Print and E-file of your federal return
* File your state return for only $9.95!

Now:
Finish now and print or e-file your state return for $29.95

... HUH?

When I looked to make sure the problem rendered right, I saw that, according to TurboTax, I was using the Basic edition. That was definitely not the edition I logged into.

Although it didn't happen last year, in past years TurboTax online recognized at the end which edition I really logged into, so I trusted that I had until the billing step to see just how wrong things were. As I wrote this article, that one trust at least had not been betrayed.

When I reached the end of the state return information, the bill was tallied: $44.90. That is definitely not the $9.95 I was quoted up front. The breakdown was $14.95 to file my Federal return and $29.95 to file my state return. Having now conclusive proof that I was not even close to where I thought I was, I didn't pay a cent or even fill in a single digit of my number.

I was baited and switched.

The bait was the promise of a certain price to file my returns, and I was still scratching my head trying to figure out where the switch was. It must have been at login. I couldn't yet believe that I had been intentionally victimized by a bait-and-switch scam, but it was up to customer support to make things right. I was, as far as I was concerned, the victim of just a buggy application.

As I backed up, the Live Community sidebar told me I had a reply to the message I posted. The response was:

rjs [SuperUser] Answered:

You posted your question from Basic, not from Freedom Edition. (Freedom Edition doesn't have Live Community.) The price you are seeing now is for Basic. You may have chosen to upgrade, or logged in from www.turbotax.com instead of from www.taxfreedom.com. You may have arrived at www.turbotax.com by clicking the button "Let Me See Value Added Offers" on the Freedom Edition home page.

Neither of those "may haves" was true.

ArielMT Commented:

No, I logged in from http://www.taxfreedom.com/ which redirected me to http://turbotax.intuit.com/taxfreedom/

I did not log in any other way, and I have not logged in any other way when filing even one past return.

I posted that before realizing I forgot to address the other "may have":

ArielMT Commented:

I forgot to note that I didn't see any buttons to the effect of "Let me see value added offers," let alone click on them. A tax return is something I am careful with to the point of near-paranoia, so out of habit I read everything and choose carefully where I click.

I found the button he mentioned three days later. It was at the very bottom of the Freedom Edition home page, so far below the fold that I had to scroll more than a page's worth to see it even in full screen mode. By contrast, the button I actually clicked on was conspicuous and in the headliner spot at the top of the page.

The TurboTax Live Community had what appeared to be Intuit employees posting answers on it, but I wasn't led to believe that rjs was one, and after an hour of scratching a hole into my head, I didn't receive any other responses. But I now knew that my complaint matched a dozen identical complaints I found without looking.

To get this problem solved, I would have to use a more official means to contact customer service.

Getting out and going to the TurboTax.com home page, I found the option to chat with a customer service representative. I took it. They wanted me to fill in a question up front, which is often a good way to be directed to someone who can actually help with the specific problem. At least in theory.

In theory, there isn't a difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

I filled in as the question:

Where is the Free Edition promised on the Tax Freedom home page? Why am I suddenly being charged $44.90 when your home page said $9.95?

I was connected surprisingly quickly to a CSR. I present now my copy of the conversation log, colorized and uncensored, but interrupted with short comments.

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to 02_Rohith Radhakrishnan.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Hi Thank you for contacting Intuit, My name is Rohith Radhakrishnan, Could you please give me a moment while I go through your question?

Don Thornton: sure.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: If I have understood you correctly, you want to know you are being charged despite using free edition. Am I right

Don Thornton: Yes.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: May I have your last name, street address, zip code and phone number to pull out your records?
02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Have you already been charged?

Thankfully, he asked the latter question quickly. I had absolutely no intention of giving such a complete copy of my identity without further justification. I gave my legal given name instead of my chosen name precisely so he wouldn't need to ask the former question.

Don Thornton: I did not pay.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: May i know which product you tried to buy?

My opening question didn't answer that?

Don Thornton: TurboTax Online via the URL taxfreedom.com and turbotax.intuit.com/taxfreedom/

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Are you eligible for free filing?

Don Thornton: The site told me that I am eligible for free filing of my Federal return, and it told me that I would be charged $9.95 to file my state return.
Don Thornton: When I reached the billing step, it told me that I was going to be charged $14.95 to file my Federal return and $29.95 to file my state return.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Don i will give you the contact number of our sales and support. Please contact them to help you better.

There was almost no delay. It was as if he did nothing more than look up a canned answer and fell quickly to the default: pass the buck. I brought up a scratchpad and waited for the number.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: The number is 1-888-777-3066

Don Thornton: I am ready for that information.
Don Thornton: What extension or menu items do I choose?

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: please call on this number and they will provide you with a solution

There was no way I was going to call a mystery number without at least finding out who was on the other end. I very quickly did a Web search of the number and brought up some interesting articles.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: I am sorry but i am awaiting your response

Don Thornton: I'm almost ready for a response.
Don Thornton: Will my experience calling this number be better than the one documented at http://foolswisdom.com/turbotax-and-intuit-lost-my-business/ ? I found it when looking up the number you asked me to call.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Yes i assure you it will be.

That answer came almost too quickly for him to bring up the page. It was clear that I couldn't get any further, so I decided it was time to end this chat and call it strike one.

Don Thornton: Thank you.

02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: you are welcome.
02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: You may receive a survey from us through email in approximately 24 hours asking you about my performance on today's contact, as well as comments you may have in regards to the TurboTax product. So we can continue with our promise to provide our customers with the best support available, please take a few minutes to complete the survey.
02_Rohith Radhakrishnan: Thank you for contacting Intuit. It was a pleasure to assist you as a valuable customer and have a great night!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye

I was too upset to call that night. When I went to bed, there had not been any replies to my post on the TurboTax Live Community.

I called that number the next day and was connected to a human bean without having to speak to a computer. The gentleman gave an Indian name I couldn't hope to write down, and he spoke English with a clearly Indian accent. I explained the problem using small words: I was given one price before logging in, I logged in, and I was given a much higher price at the end. I was told in live chat to call this number and assured that this was the right number to call to fix this, so was there anything they could do to fix this.

I was told politely yet frankly that they wouldn't help me. The Tax Freedom Edition does not include customer telephone support, he said, so they wouldn't provide any support at all. He did say he was sorry that he "couldn't" (wouldn't) provide support, and I said that I was sorry, too, as I was no longer a TurboTax or Intuit customer, as of now.

Strike two. But at least I wasn't kept on hold longer than a minute. The entire call lasted less than five minutes.

I was the victim of a bait and switch, and whether it was by accident or by design didn't matter. They refused to remedy the situation, even though I explained quite clearly what had happened, and even though I never leveled that accusation until after I hung up. I was the victim of a bait-and-switch scam, and their absence of genuine customer support cemented in my mind that it was intentional.

I still allowed the thought to linger that it was maybe an accident, but I refuse to be a customer of a company that practices it through either deliberate will or negligence.

I logged back in to delete my information, and out of habit I logged in the exact same way as before: through the Tax Freedom Edition home page. I was presented with a very different message at login, though:

Check Your Product Choice

Important! You have been using TurboTax Basic 2007 and you have chosen to change to TurboTax Freedom Edition 2007. Remember, you can only file Free with TurboTax Freedom Edition 2007 if you meet one of the below qualifications.

Qualifications to prepare and e-file a federal tax return for free:
* Earn an Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) of $30,000.00 or less in 2007. OR
* Qualify for the Earned Income tax Credit (EITC) in 2007. OR
* Were Active Duty Military in 2007 and earned an Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) of $54,000 or less (Military W2 required).

What do you want to do?
(o) Continue using TurboTax Basic 2007.
(_) Clear my information and start over using TurboTax Freedom Edition 2007.

How nice. Only now, the next day, was I given the choice. But it was already too late. After two failed attempts to get a solution, or even a workaround, it was too late. I was not going to file my taxes with TurboTax this year or ever again. I went in and deleted all my information.

Back to the Live Community thread I started, I decided I would post an answer instead of just a comment, as I had indeed found an answer.

ArielMT Answered:

It would seem Intuit got a few cages rattled between then and now, or Intuit simply have a product buggier than WinME and WinVista combined, because only now, the day after, am I informed, "Wait a minute! Did you want to use the Freedom Edition instead?" (Or words to that effect.)

Since this bait-and-switch is how six years of customer loyalty is rewarded, I'm out. It doesn't matter whether the bait and switch was deliberate or through a product with such a showstopping bug, especially since this forum is littered with identical complaints.

My answer is to stop using Intuit products, including any edition of TurboTax Online.

I then made good on that.

I went to the IRS Web site and shopped around for authorized e-file tax preparers. Here is the list I found of Free File Alliance partners. TurboTax was listed there, as were 18 others. I did some basic research through company Web sites, the IRS, and Google searches, and I chose TaxACT Online through the IRS's link (which I copied and pasted here from the IRS's departure and disclaimer page for that link).

TaxACT said that they'd file my Federal return for free and charge $13.95 to file my state return. That's still not a bad price at all. I set up an account, logged in, and filled in my information.

TaxACT Online detected my browser just like TurboTax Online did, but TaxACT Online told me that I was using a supported browser. They don't make any specific mention of Linux support, but they do oficially support Opera as well as Firefox, IE, and Safari.

Although TaxACT used JavaScript as well, it presented a much cleaner interface and a far more responsive experience than TurboTax. Even as paranoid as I tend to get about making sure everything's right before clicking, I was able to start from scratch, finish, pay, and file in just half the time it took in TurboTax.

And here I thought TurboTax was supposed to be, um... Well, turbo.

As what I perceived to be an added benefit, I was charged exactly what I agreed up front to pay: $13.95. In other words, less than a third of what Intuit tried to stuff me with. After the TurboTaxing trials of the last two days, that was a refreshing experience.

I slept well that night.

I woke up to news that the Feds had accepted my return, followed by news that the state had done the same twelve hours later.

Just for grins, I went back to the TurboTax Live Community to see if there were any responses to my thread. This reply awaited me:

TurboTaxBecca [TechPro] Answered:

I can certainly understand your frustrations and I assure you we have no intentions of doing a bait and switch with anyone. I'm glad you had 6 great years with TurboTax and I'm sorry that this one incident has soured your view of us. Please take a moment to visit http://taxfreedom.com and fill it out as though it was your first time going there, do not enter your normal username and password. Enter in the same information you did before and watch closely to see if you are prompted to upgrade to the Basic Edition of TurboTax. It could be that people are continuing on and not realizing what they are doing. It could be that you attempted to transfer your information in from last year, if that is the case that is why you were upgraded to Basic. The free edition does not have this feature and clearly states that when you attempt to transfer information. We have provisions in place in the event that someone wants to change to a lower version of TurboTax. Just sign in to taxfreedom.com and you will be prompted to change the version of TurboTax your return is currently associated with. If all that was not enough, we do have a 60 day money back Satisfaction Guarantee that we proudly stand by. If you are not satisfied with your experience with TurboTax, contact us and we will be happy to take your feedback so we know what to do better and will be even happier to offer you a refund. Again I'm sorry for the experience you had this year with TurboTax and I thank you for sharing with us so we know where we need to make improvements.

Satisfaction Guarantee:
http://turbotax.intuit.com/support/kb...rders-and-refunds/335.html

Did you get all that? Good, because I didn't, even though I thought I did at first. Her user name led me to believe that she was an actual Intuit employee, since, this being their forum, they wouldn't want anyone impersonating them. The post has buried in it theories that I had already clarified and defeated in previous replies. But one very important thing stuck out: the 60 day money back Satisfaction Guarantee she said that they offered.

I looked that guarantee over, and I laughed. I laughed loudly. She had to be joking. It would've been strike three even if I didn't already make good on my answer.

It's also worth noting that the only feedback links provided in "Answer" posts are "Helpful" and "Solved." If the answer is completely unhelpful, there's no way to give feedback about that except in a reply. Since this "Answer" was the most unhelpful yet, I found it an added source of humor at Intuit's expense.

ArielMT Commented:

Wow, that's a long paragraph. I managed to read it all.

Thank you, TurboTaxBecca for saying:
If all that was not enough, we do have a 60 day money back Satisfaction Guarantee that we proudly stand by.

But the Satisfaction Guarantee, to which you very kindly linked me, states clearly in the lone paragraph about TurboTax Online:
Printing or e-filing your return reflects your satisfaction with TurboTax Online, at which time you are required to submit NON-REFUNDABLE PAYMENT. [Original emphasis modified for forum posting.]

I'm more inclined to believe a publicly accessible Web page located in an official directory than I am to believe a members-only forum post. Sorry. It's because of what's actually written in your Satisfaction Guarantee that I refuse to pay a cent.

Besides that, the rest of your support staff failed to resolve the problem or even to offer an acceptable workaround. This forum, live customer service chat, and a telephone call to customer service all failed, I'm sad to report. The only bright side, as I like to remain an optimist, is that they all failed quickly. My experience with three forms of customer support left me with the clear indication that you don't really want my (and probably anyone's) business or money.

By the time you replied, I had already taken my business elsewhere. I returned to the IRS Web site (http://www.irs.gov/ ), shopped around for another e-file tax preparer, chose TaxACT Online, and created Federal and state tax returns from scratch. TaxACT Online was able to start from scratch and finish successfully in just half the time it took TurboTax Online to start from accurately imported data and fail. Also unlike TurboTax Online, your competitor charged me not a penny more than the price I agreed up front to pay, and pay I quite happily did.

That wasn't the end of my TurboTax experience, but the actual end was a very satisfying closure. 02_Rohith told me that I might get a survey about his and Intuit's performance. Well, I did.

Dear Don,

As part of our effort to continually improve our support services, we would like to ask a few questions about your recent support experience. Please take a few minutes to complete the following survey. This survey is in reference to your recent Chat experience with our TurboTax Customer Support representative on 2008-01-28T21:17:42-08:00. Thank you for your time in completing this survey and for helping us make TurboTax Support the best it can be.

Did our Chat representative resolve your issue?
Select one
(_) Yes
(o) No
(_) I don't know

Including this contact, how many times have you contacted us about this issue?
Select one
(_) 1
(_) 2
(o) 3
(_) 4
(_) 5
(_) More than 5

Based on your recent Chat interaction with TurboTax Help and Support, how would you say that we (TurboTax Support) performed against your expectations?
Select one
(_) Greatly exceeded my expectations
(_) Exceeded my expectations
(_) Met my expectations
(_) Fell somewhat short of my expectations
(o) Fell way short of my expectations

Where did we (TurboTax Support) meet or exceed your expectations?
Please describe

At this point, there was a text entry box which I left blank.

Where did we (TurboTax Support) fall short of your expectations?
Please describe

You failed in either ability or willingness to correct the problem. If you did so much as recognize the problem, you failed to express that awareness as well. I was instead instructed to call the number 1-888-777-3066, and assured that I would receive satisfaction by calling that number, but the staff at that number refused to offer any support whatsoever.

You failed to provide even basic support.

You could not have fallen shorter of my expectations even if you did not advertise any customer support at all.

At least if they didn't have any customer support at all, I would've switched that very night instead of the next day.

Intuit, if you ever get around to reading this (especially if you read this far), then feel free to contact me with corrections about the details of my being TurboTaxed. However, don't bother trying to win me back because, as this experience shows, you obviously didn't want my business to begin with. I've set up a special email address just for you: turbotaxed(AT)thornton2.com. To control that Internet scourge named after a Hormel product, I answer to the names Don and Ariel, but not Turbotaxed.

Edited on February 3, 2008: I initially wrote that TaxACT Online charged me $13.95 plus tax. I reviewed my statement, and I discovered I misremembered. The amount I actually paid was $13.95 period.